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Thu
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Joined: 2011 Jan 1
a few questions from a new contributor

Hello everyone. I found the Garden here a few months ago when I was looking for some old Mac games and I was really surprised by all the care and work to keep all this old Mac software useable for everyone.

That motivated me to dig out my boxes of old Mac stuff over the holidays to see if I could fill in some of the missing stuff here. I was an early member of AOL and I used to check their Mac boards every day and just download whatever was added. And it wasn't just AOL. It was local BBSs and early Internet groups.

I'm starting now to go through all my disks, but I'm not really sure what belongs here. So, I thought I would ask the regulars.

1. I know people here prefer image files made from the original disks for use in emulators. Unfortunately, a lot of my really old archives are just drag-n-drop copies of the disks. Would it be acceptable for me to use a real Mac to try to drag the files back to a floppy and then make an image of it?

For example, here are a few games I have as just a folder on hard drive.

original Balance of Power (date of app says 1986)
Mind Prober
Paper Airplane Construction Set
original Quarterstaff from Simulated Environment Systems
Universal Military Simulator II
Victory at Sea

2. Is it ok to upload shareware games or should I stick to the commercial stuff?

3. What about walkthroughs? I've got a folder full of those. Any interest in a grab bag upload of walkthrough files?

4. And finally, are cracks for games allowed? I also have some folders of cracks and serial numbers.

I'm just trying to get a feel for what I should be looking for as I start to go through all my stuff. It is going to take me a good deal of time to sort through everything and see what is already here, but I can upload a few things, like the ones mentioned above, as soon as I hear back about the images.

Comments

Innes's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 19

A walkthrough section could be quite a nice addition to the garden, as im not so sure that it would be that great to have them dotted about in the apps or games lists. If they could get their own section i think it would be pretty neat.

Cracks, im not so sure. There are a few serial/crack programs for classic MacOS stuff available on the net elsewhere, so long as there still reachable it might be better to keep that kinda thing off the garden but they do have their use, i've used a few 'stock' serials to activate a few programs up here that would otherwise have no other method of achieving full function.

The method for creating image files is up here i think but if it proves too time consuming/fiddly for your liking, a .sit file is better than a long wait. One of us can get around to converting it at some point

Personally, I wouldn't say there was anything wrong with shareware uploads, if its still available somewhere else tho a download link to its site would suffice, like whats done with Munchies

Finally, welcome! always superb to see new contributors Smile

Bolkonskij's picture
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Joined: 2009 Aug 3

Welcome Thu! Always nice to see some new faces around here Smile

As for a walkthrough section, it'd definitely rock. While there is gamefaqs & others, they don't dedicate much time to their Mac section. Quite often it is just copy + paste of the PC stuff, which can be misleading. Same goes for a special "updates" section where updates & patches are stored separately from the original software, connected via an automated link. ("There are updates available for this software. Click here")

As for cracks: The goal of Macintosh Garden is to preserve Mac software in it's original state. It is not about preserving cracks. That is why we always prefer to get images of the original discs above anything else. I think we settled now on the fact that No-CD patches are OK as long as the games are no longer sold. Though I'd really like Maedi to clarify the rules on this whole issue? (including posting serials to old shareware)

IIGS_User's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 8

Universal Military Simulator II

http://macintoshgarden.org/games/ums-ii-nations-at-war
is version 1.2.6, currently, If you own a newer version, or even a manual which you can scan (and PDF'ing), this would be fine.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

Please don't try to create images from that sort of backup. Just stuff the folders, or put related folders together and stuff them. We really don't want people to think that a created image is the same as a retail image -- retail images need to be specially preserved.

Shareware -- only if defunct and no longer available. If still sold, no way.
As for cracks -- don't upload them alone; if a crack is necessary for an old game to work, include it (but separately in the archive; if you created an image from a CD, and also need a crack, just put both together in a .sit).

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Thu,

welcome.

Whatever format you have the software in is fine. Although the site may prefer images of original media, if you have a Finder copy of the installed app / game that is not already here, it would be extremely welcome. Just remember to compress it with an early-ish version of Stuffit / DropStuff and explain what it is, ie. This is a Finder copy of the installed application folder, compressed with Stuffit v5.5".

As long as you're clear about the format, no-one gets upset. Some get irked (or maybe it's only me) if someone uploads a home-made disc image claiming it to be an image of the original media. Others may actually have the original media and then not upload it as they're under the impression it's already here. No matter what format, we'll all give our appeciation - we also know the effort involved in uploading stuff (researching release date, looking for patches, sourcing screen shots and a meaningful synopsis, virus checking if it's not original media - and sometimes even if it is).

Shareware is fine too, if you think it is abandonware also.

Balrog's picture
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Joined: 2009 Apr 24

Some get irked (or maybe it's only me) if someone uploads a home-made disc image claiming it to be an image of the original media.

I strongly agree with this.

themacmeister's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 26

Unfortunately, most of my images are home-made. I do have some originals, but they are almost too large to upload... I guess it comes down to a matter of taste - personally, I could do without multimedia presentations and demos, and save ~400MB of downloads.

Thu
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Joined: 2011 Jan 1

Sounds good guys.

I understand about the walkthroughs and cracks. I saw one of the people here as a really nice Wired server setup. Maybe I can upload them there. Right now they are just folders full of mixed games, so that might be the best place for them.

It seems like most of the old commercial games I have are already up here. I will double-check versions later on though to see if I have anything to add to existing games.

I have boxes and manual for most of my games too, but I don't have a working scanner at the moment. Once I get one up and running, I can go back and add the manual for Quarterstaff, it says First Edition 1987, and anything else that is missing a manual that I have. Maybe I can add a picture of the old Quarterstaff manual cover until I can scan it.

I also found a few CDs that I didn't see up here. I need to double-check these, but I think they are abandon-ware by my first glance.

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons - 5 game collector's edition (MacSoft)
Forgotten Realms - the Archives vol 2
Ishar 3 - the Seven Gates of Infinity (abandonia.com has it)
Isaac Asimov's the Ultimate Robot (byron preiss multimedia)
Lords Royal Collection (Lords of the Realm II & Lords II Siege Pack)
Robot City - The Spectacular Interactive Adventure Game

Right now, all my stuff is just thrown into a few folders so it is going to take some time to get everything sorted. I've got a good idea of what to look for though.

I think I will start by uploading the stuffed folders of Quarterstaff and Balance of Power this weekend and letting you all take a look at them and see how they work out. If what I'm doing is ok, I can upload a few more things.

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

You can always upload to a free sharing site like MediaFire and put the link in a forum post here and see what everybody thinks should be done with it. Also, all the individual game pages on this site allow for multiple files attached ("add another item" on the edit page) so if there's more than one version of a particular game that seems worth keeping, you can add it without removing the prior one.

Yay, Asimov's robots! I've been looking for those CD's!

bertyboy's picture
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Joined: 2009 Jun 14

Unfortunately, most of my images are home-made.

Of course, home-made images are also extremely welcome as long as the description explains this. Even if it's a warez disc image, just say it is so. I've had to do this with a few titles.

Thu
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Joined: 2011 Jan 1

Ok, I've been playing around with Balance of Power and Quarterstaff for a couple of hours now.

Balance of Power: The drag-n-drop copy asks for the original disk, so that one is no good unless someone knows a way around that.

I did find an image file, but I haven't exactly figured out what kind of image it is. The icon is generic file icon. At first, I thought is was a FastCopy, from Central Point's MacTools collection, image. FastCopy 4.0 did recognize it, but it only read it to about the 30% point before saying there was an error reading the file.

I'm not sure what else I can do with this one.

I've put them up on MediaFire if any of you want to download what I've got and see if you can make it work.

http://www.mediafire.com/?xjbsoi8wt1mpz

The sit file was stuffed with Stuffit 5.5 in OS 9. The zip file was made in 10.6.

Quarterstaff: Much better luck. I found the image files. DiskCopy 4.2 reads them just fine and made floppies. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to fully test the disks. Disk 1 installed just fine, but something went horribly wrong with the disk drive while ejecting the disk. The MacPlus is out of commission for now. I will try it on my SE tomorrow just to make sure it all works and then I can upload them.

I guess I can't really guarantee they are images of the actual originals since I haven't been able to find the original disks. I can't see why they wouldn't be though, so I'm fairly confident they are.

Glad to see there is another Asimov fan here MCP. I'll make the toast images tomorrow and then upload after I do a little more checking on Byron Preiss Multimedia. I can then upload the manual as soon as I can get my scanner hooked up.

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

Thanks Thu! And don't give up on those old images; we have a lot of old patch information and such, so it may yet be possible to use what you have.

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Joined: 2010 Nov 19

Please hang on, there is certainly plenty of material you might contribute.
As for Asimov, you can count me too!
The sit file seems to inflate to a creator ID "PNfl", type ID "FLPI". Does this sound familiar to you?

MCP's picture
MCP
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Joined: 2010 Mar 12

The image for Balance of Power loads when I drag-and-drop it onto Mini vMac, but it doesn't get past some kind of screen that has the Mindscape logo and says "Alert" in big letters. (You have to slow down Mini vMac or it will disappear too quickly to see.) The disk's title is "QC" and can be converted to different image formats by Aladdin's ShrinkWrap but won't mount on any desktop that I've tried. I'm thinking it's a tricky disk format that's meant to work with early Macs and wouldn't work on a Plus, which is possibly why a 1990 edition was made. Since the floating files are also available in the download I'm sure someone can tinker with it enough to make use of it eventually.

Thu
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Joined: 2011 Jan 1

Great try there MCP. I'm pretty sure it was for 128 or 512. It was a very early game. I found the manual so I will double-check it later tonight.

I tried to search for creator and type codes 24bit found, but I struck out. There is a site that offers the Type/Creator Database file for download that claims to have around 60,000 entries. It is shareware though and from 2003, so I don't even know if it can still be ordered.

I tried to reply last night, but I get a spam error whenever I try to post more than once at a time.

I also took a look at Public Utilities last night as a possibility, but Fastback seems to work by archiving everything into one big file. So that wasn't it.

I even took a quick look through the file with a hex editor. I didn't see any clues, but I could have easily missed something.

Anyway, I'm going to give up on it for now and concentrate on the stuff I know works. I will also keep my eye out for some other image making programs as I start to go through all my CDs. In the meantime, maybe someone smarter than me can fix the loose file in ResEdit.

Unfortunately, I was just a kid in high school when all these old games came out and long term archiving wasn't all that important to me at the time. The dates on my images are from much later like 1993.

Thu
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Joined: 2011 Jan 1

Well, I just found out what made the Balance of Power image.

Looks like it is Floppier, a part of Norton Utilities 2. I made a new image in Floppier and it had the same creator and type code.

Unfortunately, the image is bad and Floppier gave an error trying to read it. Oh well. Guess it will have to be cracked after all.