Got my SE in the mail today and....it doesn't boot. The seller claimed it did, but I guess not. Can you help me fix it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6RTWf1_ZNE&feature=youtu.be
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2012, June 6 - 6:52pm
#1
Mac SE problem
Comments
2012, June 6 - 10:04pm
#2
Can you post a still picture of the black floppy?
I never saw a black 2DD, actually.
You dont have any System disks, do you?
2012, June 6 - 10:21pm
#3
Good guess, I don't. Do you have any idea what that noise is?
2012, June 6 - 10:31pm
#4
Picture of disk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/79965577@N05/7161289855/in/photostream
2012, June 7 - 12:15am
#5
Not off to a good start. The floppy you were attempting to use in the video is an HD 1.4MB disk not 800k, hence the Mac spits it out without trying to read it. The clicking you hear is the Mac trying to access the hard drive. There is a problem with that drive. At boot up you get a healthy chime, which is a good sign. Then you get some pretty bad sounds, I think it is when it attempts accessing the hard drive is when those bad sounds occur. So you might be OK with the SE.
Now the fun begins.
Remove the back case. Detach the SCSI & power connectors from the back of the hard drive. Boot up the SE to see if those sounds go away. If you don't have a bootable floppy you should see a flashing Mac icon with a question mark. This would be a good outcome. Turn the Mac off again.
You really should wait until you have some bootable media on 800k disk. You probably also will need to find a working SCSI drive replacement.
2012, June 7 - 12:31am
#6
Thank you. Anything I should know about replacing the hard drive?
2012, June 7 - 1:10am
#7
It must be able to be terminated. Termination on a SCSI hard drive will be in the form of removable resistors or jumpers. They get removed if the hard drive was used in the middle of the SCSI chain. Someone selling on a drive may omit to include terminating resistors. If termination is by jumper thats not so important if they're missing (easy to find replacements), but if the termination is in the form of resistors it gets more difficult, as these often differ from manufacturer to drive model.
As the SE has room for only one drive, it is at the end of the chain and must be terminated. So be alert to this when buying 2nd hand SCSI drives.
Try and avoid the very old 1" brick types of drive. They suffer from vibration and can be noisy.
Look for a drive of about 500MB, for an SE this would be a good size. Aim for 1 GB or less. Settle for 2 GB if you get desperate or can't be fussed looking further (2 GB being the limit for System 6).
2012, June 7 - 2:05am
#8
You'll probably also need this, the Mac SE Service manual (PDF, right-click to download).
Also. Don't go outlaying for a drive replacement until you can determine that is the problem here.
2012, June 7 - 2:37am
#9
Is there a different way to open it besides a Torx 15 screwdriver?
2012, June 7 - 3:01am
#10
Yes, I use a long flat-ended slotted screwdriver (common flat blade screwdriver). The blade has to be fine enough to fit (snugly) into the torx screw and the shaft long enough to fit down into the recess.
2012, June 7 - 3:02am
#11
Thanks. I"ll open it tomorrow.
2012, June 7 - 2:38pm
#12
Can you post a pic of the screwdriver I need?
2012, June 8 - 12:56am
#13
Spotted this long torx attachment on ebay just after looking at the drive link you posted. Looks like just the tool, and a fairly reasonable price.
2012, June 7 - 3:35pm
#14
A torx15 blade should be a star shaped thing, 3.1mm in diameter measured from two opposing edges.
Maybe you should think twice about my SQ555 drive. I could even put a working 7.5 on it.
Postage is a bummer, of course. Is there nobody with a working vintage Mac near your place?
2012, June 7 - 6:28pm
#15
To open, I used a T15 drill / driver magnetic bit, put into a long handled screwdriver that took magnetic bits.
I'm sure my T15 drill bit came in a big Bosch drill bit case, about $200 equivalent, and used a long shafted (ratcheting, but not essential) screwdriver that took magnetic bits (about %60), to get into my compact Macs. Didn't buy these just for that task, I used them for rennovations on a handful of houses. Not suggesting thtat you buy them either, but you may know someone that has a tool selection, and even if they don't have a long-shated T15, they may be able to make one from bits like this.
I'm sure some of the Mac sites in the US still sell suitable tools cheaply.
2012, June 7 - 7:40pm
#16
Thank you all! Will this hard drive work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150831528076?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI&_trksid=p...
2012, June 7 - 9:07pm
#17
Apple branded Quantum HDDs were very popular back then. The device should be fine for you.
Just a thought about that black floppy:
Did it come with the SE? Did it show some glue or residues of tape near the square hole?
In any case, you could place a piece of adhesive tape over both sides of the hole.
In theory it is possible to format HD 1,4 MB disks as 800k with a Mac floppy drive.
Of course this is not recommended and you may loose data on that floppy, if not initialized correctly. Anyway such "hacks" were done when a "floppy shortage" occurred.
Drilling holes in 2DD floppies to make them HD worked as well, by the way.
I´m not too confident, that you may get any further with a taped HD floppy, but it may be worth a try.
2012, June 7 - 8:57pm
#18
Thank you 24bit.
2012, June 7 - 8:58pm
#19
Thank you 24bit.
2012, June 8 - 1:55am
#20
This page help a lot times and help to fix monitor problem.
http://www.ccadams.org/se/index.html
2012, June 8 - 2:55am
#21
I managed to get the case open. I unplugged the ribbon cable and power cable from the hard drive. I turned it on and the bad noises no longer occurred. This means it was, indeed the hard drive. Now to replace it and get boot disk. While I had the case open I took the time to look at all the signatures in the case. Wonderful, absolutely wonderful.
2012, June 8 - 6:07am
#22
This does sound more promising for you.
That 250 MB drive on ebay, also might be OK. You really need to determine if it includes termination before you decide on buying it.
I have a Quantum ProDrive LPS 230 MB SCSI hard drive. It has three x 8-pin termination resistors on the underside near the SCSI connector. The 250 MB drive you are interested in might have the same resistor setup in the same location, but also as easily, not (and the seller doesn't mention it in his details).
If you get sold a SCSI hard drive without the resistors or termination jumpers included, then it will be only useful as a door-stop in the case of an SE. Lacking termination jumpers is not too difficult to replace (usually uses same as master/slave/cs jumpers on IDE drives), but if the drive uses resistors and not jumpers then you will be faced with a problem of locating the same resistor type as they can differ in shape, size & ohm's rating from drive to drive.
It will not hurt you to ask the seller before you decide to commit. And if the seller doesn't know what it is you are asking - drop him and find another seller who does know the difference.
2012, June 8 - 11:59am
#23
The seller said that the hard drive was pulled from a lc580 machine and has not been tampered with. Does this sound like it should work?
2012, June 8 - 2:20pm
#24
@Ilovetheoldones:
The seller said that the hard drive was pulled from a lc580 machine and has not been tampered with. Does this sound like it should work?
No that is not good enough. If the seller cannot answer a simple question about termination & SCSI drives then:
a). He doesn't know what it is he's selling.
b). He is BS'ing
Move on, find another seller. Don't get burned (again).
As 24bit points out: An LC 580 has IDE drive support not SCSI.
@24bit:
Couldn´t the bus be terminated with a resistor pack on a flat ribbon connector? I have seen such setups, though unused tails on the bus are not first choice, of course.
Yes, Maybe. - No. Don't fritz around with this. For Ilovetheoldones this would require also sourcing, on top of having to replace a DOA hard drive in his SE, an additional SCSI ribbon cable with two drive connectors and a terminator that fits onto the end of the ribbon cable. This is all more dollars to throw away and more time to locate the above. Mind you, I did see a nice ribbon SCSI terminator on ebay for $8
Get it right the first time if you can. Don't buy something blind without asking what needs to be asked.
2012, June 8 - 2:43pm
#25
There is a smaller drive for sale that is set up with System 6.0.8 and I'm guessing here that the seller does know what it is he's selling. He's asking quite a high price tho' ($44) but it does carry a "make an offer" option.
Also, many of the "Apple" eprom branded SCSI drives of quite low sizes had high prices on them, often in excess of $80 or more.
For example if you look on US ebay for item 200771731656 you will see the Quantum ProDrive LPS 230MB drive (same as what I own) it shows at least the 3 termination resistors in place, sad to say he's asking almost $90 for it. Gee I didn't know my old drive was worth anything near that. Hmmm....
Some other SCSI hard drives FS that may or may not be of interest. I'll just post their ebay item codes, so captcha won't give me a hard time:
110893293752
261037049131
261040795899
160755311483
261029187246
200771731656
The one at the top of this list is interesting in that it includes a SCSI PCI card which probably would be OK in your PC.
2012, June 8 - 3:21pm
#26
Thanks for the items. I made an offer for the one with system 6 on it.
2012, June 8 - 12:07pm
#27
In worst case, if the Quantum could not terminate the bus by itself and there were no usable removable resistor packs on the broken drive: Couldn´t the bus be terminated with a resistor pack on a flat ribbon connector? I have seen such setups, though unused tails on the bus are not first choice, of course.
2012, June 8 - 12:18pm
#28
The LC 580 had a IDE interface for hard disks not a SCSI one. 
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_lc/specs/mac_lc_580.html
So, if it was the factory built in internal HDD drive, no - it wont work in a SE!
Better ask him for the exact type and model numbers on the drive and check the results yourself. For a non geek its easy to mix up 40pin ATA with 50pin SCSI. The sled says the drive was inside an Apple Mac, who knows...
2012, June 8 - 4:53pm
#29
Message from the seller of the original hard drive I was looking at:
Hi this is SCSI they came out of some apples but dont recall which ones I thought LC 580s but am wrong. Thanks
2012, June 8 - 7:09pm
#30
Just a question, is a Mac SE really worth $75?
2012, June 8 - 8:38pm
#31
That SCSI lot from Quebec looks interesting, but only for people who like to do some tinkering.
The drive could even be prepared on a PC with BasilikII for the SE, if the Adaptec host adapter was good. Different partitions for 6.0.8 and 7.5.5, productivity software...
When I was buying second hand Macs, I payed very much more than 75 bucks. But that was a time, when the days work was done on these Macs. If a SE is in good working condition $75 is not much for a collectible.
2012, June 9 - 12:18am
#32
That SCSI lot from Quebec looks interesting, but only for people who like to do some tinkering.
The drive could even be prepared on a PC with BasilikII for the SE, if the Adaptec host adapter was good. Different partitions for 6.0.8 and 7.5.5, productivity software...
My thoughts exactly. That auction was starting at a good price, too.
As for $75 being too much. Its not. Its more about how much you want something. I've seen SE's selling in excess of $100 in recent auctions. They can easily sell for more than what you'd pay for a working PPC beige G3 or similar - Even dead ones sell.
Personally, if starting out in collecting old Macs, I would've picked an easier target than one with a 800k floppy disk drive and no ethernet. This is a more challenging project than one with even just a 1.4MB drive as the bare minimum. So good luck to Ilovetheoldones on that. I hope that it becomes a rewarding pursuit once its up and running.
2012, June 9 - 12:28am
#33
Thank you. I picked the SE because of it's design. I love the all-in ones. People always comment on my iMac G3 when they walk in my house, "what a cute computer that is!" I think I'll pick up a $3 null modem db9 to db9, when I get 24bit's disk with ZTerm on it, I'll use that and some other terminal software on my PC to transfer the files. Then also use Stuffit Lite(also on 24bits disk) to decode the files. Hopefully this will be succesful. I will write back my progress.
2012, June 8 - 8:55pm
#34
Thanks, just wanted to know if the hard drive was even worth replacing. Time to place my order!
2012, June 9 - 12:39am
#35
A 2GB hard drive for System 6?! Man, although it sounds dinky today, every System 6 app ever could probably fit comfortably there.
2012, June 9 - 1:21am
#36
I just ordered an 80mb hard drive with system 6 on it. Thank you MikeTomTom for the link. I used the best offer option and actually got a good deal on it. I asked the seller if it was able to be terminated, and if it had it's resistors. He said it did, so I think the only thing left to do is wait for the hard drive to come in, and then to install it. I'll be up and running!
2012, June 9 - 2:10am
#37
YW. Congrats on your purchase. I was also impressed with his online store "John's Vintage Computer Items". Quite a lot of stuff in there including replacement SE mobo's, etc. He has a white G4 1GHz 14" laptop FS that caught my eye at under $150... He ships internationally but the postage costs... Wish I lived in the US at moments like these 
2012, June 9 - 2:56am
#38
And I wished I lived in NZ at moments like these:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/computers/apple/components/auction-400851061.htm
I remember reading that thread(Found an SE at the dump!) while doing research on transferring files.
BertyBoy got a steal on that one!
2012, June 9 - 3:19am
#39
...one made a bong and lit up...
Heh, Kiwi double entendre. I wonder what it went for. I recall bertyboy getting a nice collection like that back around then. It might have been the one he bid for and won.
[Edit] here's a good Trade Me auction. Original "The Manhole" plus Kid Pix and Reader Rabbit, all on 800k floppy disk. Probably won't sell for more than a $1 
2012, June 9 - 3:22am
#40
I might be bidding on that, we'll see. I remember using Kid Pix in school. Ah, the memories!
2012, June 9 - 4:47am
#43
I might be a bit late with this (I haven't read all the responses yet), but you could, possibly, make a Disk Utilities startup disk for System 6. All you'd need another old Macintosh (I use a PowerBook 150) to format your 1.4mb floppy as 800k, with the help of some tape. Once you start up, you can eject the disk temporarily and use a third party disk utility to identify the HDD problem. It could be hardware altogether, or just several very, very, VERY bad blocks. I worse does indeed come to worst, you'll have to crack her open and do a more manual fix, like terminating the SCSI. I hope this helps, sorry if it doesn't.
2012, June 9 - 4:57am
#44
Well, nevermind. Go with 24bit and MikeTomTom's suggestions. Oh, and I'd like to say that I payed $150 for my SE, which came with a meager 40mb external LaCie and dual floppy ports. In SE terms, $75 is great from what I've seen.
2012, June 9 - 11:33pm
#45
I got the hard drive out of the SE today. It was a huge pain, but now all I have to do is to install the new hard drive. The original one was rusted and screwed up, so now I know it was DEFINITELY the hard drive.
2012, June 10 - 5:41am
#46
So I really did get a bargain, one SE for free from an office clearout. Then two colour classics, one classic, another SE, an LCIII and two SE/30's - one in bits, and a box of LC motherboards and cards, printers, etc. ad nauseum, all for $17.
2012, June 10 - 6:00am
#47
WOW!...What a great deal that was bertyboy.....
2012, June 10 - 1:06pm
#48
Woah, bertyboy. That's the best deal I've seen in a long time! I'm glad you got them though, and that all that stuff wasn't either recycled, or thrown away. A color classic? Just WOW. I've always wanted one of those! Especially for $17.
2012, June 15 - 11:05pm
#49
Would this ethernet card work in the SE? If so, I could presumably transfer files via AppleTalk, correct?