Preservation of Word Processors, Editors and DTP-Software

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2009, December 11 - 11:00am

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Preservation of Word Processors, Editors and DTP-Software

I've made a web survey in order to find out which classic text processors are no longer available on the web. While popular applications like Word, WordPerfect, PageMaker, etc. are preserved either somewhere on the web or by Macintosh Garden and MacHut, there remain a few text processors that seem to be lost:

WorldWrite: This was, to my knowledge, the only Unicode Word Processor for the Mac. Its company does not exist anymore. I personally have never even seen a screenshot of this application. Even the Demo for WordWrite 3.0.1 does not seem to be downloadable anymore.

FrameMaker: This great application also seems to get lost. Only www.knubbelmac.de has a demo version of FrameMaker 3. Adobe still provides for the download of the free FrameReader 5. That's it!

RagTime 5: While RagTime 3 and 5 are still available as "privat" or "solo" editions at MacIntosh Garden, and at some other places, the full version is lost. RagTime only sells Version 6 nowadays which is no good for classic Macs.

QuarkXPress: What MacHut offers in this regard is incomplete crap. Furthermore, the international passport edition is lost.

FullWrite Dictionaries: While FullWrite is still available as freeware on the web, its dictionaries, which had to be bought separately and where never released as freeware, are lost. The company is dead.

Nisus Writer Dictionaries: While Nisus Writer 6.5 is still sold by Nisus, this company for some reason no longer sells the international dictionaries - which is an unbelievable situation for a multilingual word processor! This is especially bad, because the international hyphenation of Nisus Writer Express and Nisus Writer Pro depends on Apple and is no good. This company is destined to loose the battle against Mellel!

Xemacs: This free unix editor is no longer available on the web, since its programmer died last year I believe.

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2009, December 11 - 12:35pm

Carl

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For what it's worth, some old versions of QuarkXPress can be found on Higher Intellect. I don't know if it's what you're looking for, though.

2010, January 4 - 9:28am

(Reply to #2) #3

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Thanks for your hint. As a matter of fact, I didn't know about this website. As for your question whether this helps, I, of course, do not use all the applications mentioned. This is not possible, as one gets accustomed to one application and normally sticks to it. However, I thought, it might be of some interest for people to know which applications are really getting lost, since this is a website devoted to the preservation of legacy applications. Also, I can imagine that there are some collectors out there who like to know what is still available and what not. As a matter of fact, I found three more text processors which are no longer available for sale or otherwise on the web:

StarOffice: There actually existed a classic Mac version of this application.

papyrus: I believe, papyrus, for a very short while offered a Mac OS 9 version of their word processor, but discontinued developing it for lack of demand.

VivaPress Pro: SolutionWright Software is dead. VivaPress, to my knowledge, was the only DTP-Software that supported World Script.

I personally, would be very courious to get to know WorldWrite, because of its Unicode capabilities. I just recently came across this by chance. I did not know that such a thing as a unicode word processor for classic Mac existed.

Also, I would be very interested to get a hold on the Nisus Writer dictionaries. I even would be willing to pay money for them. I actually tried to buy the dictionaries from Nisus (as a bought the Nisus Writer) but they simply do not sell the dictionaries any more.

2009, December 13 - 9:56am

themacmeister

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I'm pretty sure I have a copy of the commercial RagTime - (before they went personal/shareware)

I will check my backups.

2009, December 14 - 4:44am

themacmeister

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Just found this, only one seeder, two leechers - be quick!

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3499903/Adobe_Framemaker_7_Mac

Runs under OS9 - possibly 8.6 too - requires serial (not included)

2009, December 15 - 10:24am

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The commercial version of RagTime 5 includes the hyphenation dictionaries which are, of course, essential for DTP. RagTime and FrameMaker both allow footnotes something which has never been easily possible with PageMaker. For Quark it was (or is) possible to buy a third party tool for the footnotes.

2009, December 22 - 10:31pm

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Because of the current discussion on how to identify abandonware, I have made a list of word processors and DTP software for classic Macs whose most recent version is still sold by their companies and therefore is NOT abandonware:

iText Pro (commercial version of the free iText)
LightWayText
Mariner Write
Nisus Writer 6.5 (However, the Nisus Writer Dictionaries ARE - unfortunately - abandonware!)
PageMaker 7
Ready!Set!Go!
Z-Write
Word 2001? (I am not sure)

2009, December 20 - 10:00pm

soudesune

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How about MacWrite Pro 1.5? It is so hard to find now.

2009, December 22 - 10:36am

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Seems to be another lost program - like Ventura Publisher 3.2 Gold for the Mac.

2010, January 4 - 9:47am

(Reply to #9) #10

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MacWrite Pro 1.5 is now on this website.

Another interesting word processor which seems to be lost is
WinText by WinSoft.
Despite its name, this multilingual word processor is not a Windows applications but was written for Mac OS.

2010, January 4 - 11:41am

#11

TataMisia

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In my opinion the best
- word processors are: MS Word (5.1a - for 68k and 2001 for PPC).
- text editors are: iText , BBEdit, Nisus Writer.
- DTP software are: inDesign and QuarkXpress.

2010, January 5 - 9:08am

#12

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Well, it really depends what you need a word processor for. For instance, FullWrite, MacWrite Pro, and Hanmac Word have some nice DTP like features Word 5.1A simply does not have. Also, Word never made it to be World Script savvy, which for multilingual word processing is essential. Word's typography traditionally is a nightmare, whereas MacWrite Pro has automatic kerning.

Regarding editors, it even much more depends on what you need them for. For instance, I would not recommend using iText for OzteX, but Alpha or BBedit. iText is good because it is styled. If you need Unicode support WorldText is the best. But there is also Pepper, Jedit, and others. World Script savvy editors are quite rare, the best being Word Solutions, but there is also an ancient version of Tex-Edit which supports world script (the newer versions do not support World Script). Nisus Writer is not an editor but a wonderfull full featured word processor, which is in many regards superior to Word 2001. Also, Word 2001 makes a Mac run less smoothly and crashes with Error 2 from Mac OS 9.1 upward when automatic hyphenation is on.

As for DTP software, typography is of prime importance. And here PageMaker is very good if not the best. InDesign is better and based on PageMaker but not a Classic Application. FrameMaker is the best for book production because it supports footnotes and long documents. It also has excellent typography. (By the way I heard that Pirate Bay closed down so that above FrameMaker torrent probably will not work - I did not test it however, since I do not like torrents.)

One of the big problems of classic DTP software is multilanguage text processing. None of the DTP applications supports Unicode, most don't support World Script. An exception was VivaPress which supported WorldScript. For some of the DTP applications there are foreign language versions available, like for Arabic Ready, Set, Go! And I think, also Adobe has some foreign language cooperations.

Regarding typography, unbeat is, of course, TeX, but it is a nightmare to install language fonts.

2010, January 4 - 4:55pm

#13

Balrog

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The Pirate Bay did not close down, only their tracker did (but most torrents still work). And I have the FrameMaker CD someplace.

2010, January 5 - 7:07am

#14

themacmeister

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Please, oh please tell me they are not still selling Ready!Set!Go!

G*d help us all...

2010, January 5 - 9:00am

(Reply to #14) #15

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They even have a Snow Leopard update for Ready, Set, Go! Look at
http://www.diwan.com/ready/prsg.htm

I would very much appreciate an upload of FrameMaker as I probably have to give up on Nisus for lack of dictionaries.

2010, January 9 - 9:31am

(Reply to #15) #16

themacmeister

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xy, that is just freaky - notice the OS7 and OS8 screenshots throughout

xy, I am running InDesign 2.02 on a G3 iBook (600MHz), and it positively flies along! I am pretty sure it will run under classic, so will try it in Classic Mode on my new 1.25GHz G4 eMac too...

2010, January 5 - 12:54pm

#17

TataMisia

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1. MS Word 5.1a is the very good word processor for ME. Not for all.
2. MS Word 2001 (and all Office pack) work good at my Mac OS 9.2.2. Now, with Polish dictionary and thesaurus is ideal for ME.
3. Yes, iText is simply, and I use it for simply works.
3a. Yes, Nisus Writer is Word processor, but I use Free Express version to text work.
4. Adobe inDesign is for Mac OS 9. I use 1.5 version. Heard about 2.0 version for Mac OS 9

Look "xy", I started post by words "In my opinion..."

2010, January 5 - 10:22pm

#18

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Sorry, TataMisia, I didn't mean to offend you. Of course, I respect your opinion. Also, thank you for correcting me about InDesign. I didn't know that there was an InDesign version for Mac OS 9. This is actually good news. Yes, there is a Version 2.0.2 for Mac OS 9. I did some research after your message. It is supposed to be quite slow, though. Regarding Word 2001, it is interesting to hear that you do not seem to have the above mentioned problem with Error 2 when automatic hyphenation is on. I did have that problem with Mac OS 9.1. It was so enervating that I trashed the application, and my Mac responded like a happy cat. After what you have said, Microsoft or Apple seem to have solved the problem. As a matter of fact, I did not know this either, because I havn't used Word 2001 for ages. Sorry again.

2010, January 7 - 2:50pm

#19

TataMisia

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Adobe inDesign and MS Office 2001 work good at this machine:
iMac G3, 350 Mhz, 512 Mb RAM, Mac OS 9.2.2

2010, January 7 - 6:29pm

#20

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Here is a statement from Microsoft to the Error Type 2 Problem with Office 2001 and Mac OS 9:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.macuser.d...

2010, January 8 - 4:07pm

#21

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Found another word processor which seems to be lost:
MindWrite.
Although http://www.d2ca.org/d2ca-ss-gallery-mac-commercial-03.html has it, I do not know whether Dan distributes his software to anybody. He seems to have a very strict distribution policy according to his own guidlines.

2010, January 9 - 6:08am

#22

D2CA

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Regarding xy's post (thanks, BTW), as long as it's legal to do so I can make titles available that are listed on my site.

I have the following titles:
- FrameMaker 3.0 (Windows 3.1)
- Quark XPress 4.04 Passport Edition (requires keyboard dongle & serial #)
- Nisus Writer 5.1.3

... as well as:

- MacWrite 5.0
- MindWrite 2.1 (as mentioned by xy...thanks!)
- WordPerfect 1.0.3
- WriteNow 2.2
- Microsoft Word 4.0 Academic Edition
- Aldus PageMaker 5.0
- Adobe PageMaker 6.52 Plus
- MacPublisher 1.1

... and hundreds of other Mac & other platform titles.

These are the full original titles imaged from the original commercial software media.

To find out how to acquire this software, visit my site at these links at Dan's 20th Century Abandonware:
- Home Page: http://www.d2ca.org/
- Software catalogs page: http://www.d2ca.org/d2ca-legacy-sw-catalogs.html
- Services page: http://www.d2ca.org/services.html
- Surplus software page: http://www.d2ca.org/d2ca-surplus-sw.html
- Legal policy page: http://www.d2ca.org/legal.html
- Is abandonware legal? http://www.d2ca.org/is-abandonware-legal.html
- Contact page: http://www.d2ca.org/contact.html

Dan

2010, January 9 - 12:49pm

#23

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Macmeister, does InDesign 2.0.2 support footnotes? I know that later versions do, but I don't know whether version 2 already has footnote support.

2010, January 10 - 2:10pm

#24

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I did some research: InDesign 2 does not seem to have footnote support which makes FrameMaker the only scholarly book production tool with decent typography for Mac OS Classic. However, there are (quite expensive) footnote plugins from www.virginiasystems.com for InDesign and QuarkXPress, but I do not know how reliable they are. Also, there is RagTime 5 which supports footnotes but I checked out the Solo version of RagTime 5.6.2 and found its typography tools rather sparse. Macmeister, you said you have the commercial version of RagTime 5. Did you ever work with it? What were your experiences with its typography?
And then, there, of course, is TeX.

2010, January 11 - 10:07am

#25

themacmeister

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I have never launched RagTime in my life. I was using Quark XPress at the time, and RagTime was a distant cousin, twice removed...

I am pretty sure I downloaded the Solo version more recently, but I will check my backups again. I may also have some backup footnote apps/plugins backed up too...

2010, January 11 - 10:55am

#26

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Don't worry about the Privat or Solo Version of RagTime. I have both. They are still downloadable on the web. They are not really of any use, however, since they lack the hyphenation dictionaries.

More interesting are the footnote plugins you mentioned. Are there any other third party footnote plugins despite Sonar Bookends from Virginia Systems? I consider buying a used retail version of InDesign 2. However, I definiteley need smoothly working footnote support.

2010, January 15 - 10:54am

#27

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Here:
http://www.thepowerco.com/sonar_bookends_infnote_1441_prd1.html
I found a feature description of Sonar Bookends InFnote 5.0.
Seems even to be superior to the build in footnote support of the newer versions of InDesign, and it is supposed to work with InDesign 1 and 2. Especially striking is the possiblity to import Word documents with footnotes unimpaired. Has anybody experiences with the plug-in? I was not able to find any reviews on it, which is sad because it is expensive (U.S. $ 195).

2010, February 4 - 6:30pm

#28

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I have now tested a demo version of Sonar Bookends Infnote. The interesting thing is that for InDesign 2.0.2 there exists only the very old version 2.0 of the Infnote plug-in - and not - as the current Virginia System website declares, version 7.2 (although this version 2.0 is included in the 7.2 package!). This old version is very rudimentary, time consuming and not satisfactory at all so that RagTime 5 and FrameMaker remain the only Mac Classic DTP programs with adequate footnote support.

2010, March 29 - 6:37pm

#29

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I just noticed that my favourite word processor FullWrite 2.0.6 is getting lost. Thus, here is the last remaining website which has a working download link of this great application. The website is in German. The download, however, is the English version of FullWrite:
http://www.knubbelmac.de/software/textverarbeitung.html

Here is an archived website with information on this word processor in English. The download links of the website do not work anymore, though:
http://web.archive.org/web/20071202073225/www.asynchronous.ca/fwp/

Here is a manual:
http://ashcavai.com/FWToolbox.pdf

What is entirely lost are the dictionaries. They were sold separately to the application and never released as freeware.

2010, March 31 - 5:55pm

#30

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Also RagTime Solo for Mac OS 9 seems to get lost in the web. Here is one of the last download links; it is for version 5.6.1:
http://macware.ru/program_prog_id_582.html

The website is in Russian. RagTime Solo, however, is in English. To download click on:
Скачать программу с Ware.ru

I tested the download. It's virus free.

The last update for Mac OS 9 was 5.6.2. It's also somewhere in the web, but hard to find. I'll hunt for it, though.

2010, May 11 - 7:58am

#31

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Found one of the last download links for the tryout version of FrameMaker 7.0:
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/framemaker/ma...

And here is a download link for the FrameReader 5.1.
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe/framereader/m...

2010, May 12 - 5:37pm

#32

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Found out about another DTP software that is lost:
Interleaf Publisher. Last version for the Mac was 3.6.

2010, July 26 - 5:36am

#33

D2CA

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Thanks to a recent and very generous donation, D2CA now has preserved the following:
- MacWrite 1.0 & MacPaint 1.0 (for Mac 512K, both titles on one 400K floppy)
- MacWrite 2.20 & MacPaint 1.3 (for Mac 512K, both titles on one 400K floppy)
- MacWrite 4.5 Disk Based (Mac 512K on a 400K floppy)
- MacWrite II 1.1
- Microsoft Word 4.0 with SuperPaint
- Microsoft Word 4.00D

All of these are on their original commercial media and were donated along with TWO fully working Macintosh 512K systems plus two Apple 20 Hard Drives (20MB external HDs for Mac 512K)!

It is almost impossible to find Mac 512K software on its original media today. D2CA is very fortunate to have received this donation.

To see all of my preserved legacy software, download my PDF catalog at:
http://www.d2ca.org/pdf/catalogs/d2ca-legacy-sw-catalog-commercial.pdf

2010, November 26 - 3:51pm

#34

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There seems to be a (commercial) possibility to run FrameMaker 7.1 for Windows unemulated on Mac OS 10.5.8: Codeweavers:
http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=619;screens...

2010, December 10 - 10:49pm

#35

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Here:
http://www.furk.net/Adobe_FrameMaker_7.0_Mac_152299.sitx.html
is a free and direct download link (ie no torrent) of Framemaker 7.0 Mac. I haven't tested it yet. Seems to be without serial, though.

2010, December 11 - 2:02pm

#36

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The above mentioned download link for Framemaker 7.0 works. However, it is a sitx archive, and Stuffit Expander 7.0.3 stops decompressing it after 120 KB saying "Format Error". Does anybody know what that means? Is the archive corrupt? Or does one need a higher version of Stuffit Expander to decompress certain sitx files? I do not have Mac OS X so I cannot test. Stuffit Expander 7.0.3 was the last version for Mac OS 9.

2010, December 11 - 8:42pm

#37

unixphreak

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archive works fine, decompressed with stuffit 2010

2010, December 12 - 9:55am

#38

themacmeister

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Epic Hero - Framemaker 7.0 for Mac at LAST!

EDIT: Epic Fail - download not working on FURK, and only 1 seeder and no leechers on thepirateb@y... doh!

2012, July 4 - 4:52pm

(Reply to #38) #39

Mulder

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Framemaker 7 is already on the Garden: http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/framemaker-70

2010, December 12 - 10:50am

#40

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unixphreak, thanks for the test. That's good news.

macmeister, try again. This Furk does not seem to have too many download slots for free download. Maybe too many people trying to download at the same time after I posted the link (which was somewhat hidden in the web). And free download is very slow (about 1 h and 45 min). Also, for every IP there seems to be only one chance to download. If you try again to download after your first download Furk says that someone else is downloading with your IP which, of course, is not true. So changing IP might help.

2010, December 12 - 11:02am

#41

themacmeister

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could not find dbf2816119ee9e8ee29672e1aa75061de942b0b24a28b32b.gcdn.biz

looks highly suspect

2012, July 4 - 3:00pm

#42

russurquhart1

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I have old copies of Mac Interleaf Publisher and Mac Ventura Publisher. I'd like to give them to someone rather than throw them away. Anyone interested?

2013, July 18 - 5:44pm

#43

IIGS_User

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Got StarOffice 3.1 out of eBay now. Still need to check it's language version at next.

2013, July 18 - 6:17pm

#44

Kitchen2010

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@ russurquhart1:

Unfortunately, I saw your post only today.
Sure we would love to see "Mac Interleaf Publisher" and "Mac Ventura Publisher" uploaded to Macintosh Garden.
See my post here.
I hope you didn't throw away your copies !

I you have still the copies can you make some images of the and upload them ?
If you need technical assistance, I am sure someone here at Macintosh Garden will help you.

2013, July 19 - 9:06am

#45

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Yeah, please save them for MacGarden! Both are extremely rare and will probably be lost forever, if you throw them away.

2013, July 20 - 1:29pm

#46

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Here:
http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/interleaf-faq.html
is some information on Interleaf.

2013, July 20 - 2:56pm

#47

Kitchen2010

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Interleaf Publisher would be a very nice addition to this site.
See my post here.
I afraid, there are not many copies of it still existing.

2013, July 25 - 9:25pm

#48

Kitchen2010

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I got message from russurquhart1:

>If you could give me an address of where to send. I no longer have hardware that will read the disks.
>Thanks Russ

Is someone from this forum able to provide him technical assistance, please, to save the software perls from vanishing forever ?

2013, July 26 - 8:45am

#49

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In which country is Russ located?

2013, July 27 - 12:45pm

#50

Kitchen2010

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He wrote me an e-mail:

>Hi,
>I am in Plano Tx, is there anyone here that could help?
>Russ

Seems like he is located in Texas, USA.
So I cannot help him.
Can anyone from USA, who can provide technical help, contact him, please ?
His contact page is here.

2013, July 29 - 8:35am

#51

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I am in Europe. I do not know whether sensitive old floppy discs will survive rough international shipping. Wire transfer fees for shipping costs probably exceed shipping costs.