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Joined: 2014 Jul 2
Graphical issues on PowerMac G4

Hey, I have a Sawtooth Power Mac G4.
Specs:
400 Mhz PowerPC G4 (7400), original CPU
ATI Rage 128 Pro w 16MB VRAM
576 MB SDRAM (256MB and 256MB of PC 133-333 (same type of chip) and 64MB (original RAM) of PC 100-222S)
10GB ATA Hard drive
Mac OS X 10.4.11

With this computer I have these problems,

1. Graphical Corruption on 3D games (AquaMan and American McGee's Alice are two I tried)
2. Frequent application closes on 32-bit colour at any resolution
3. Fewer crashes on 16-bit colour but not very stable (OmniWeb works fine however)

The closes on 32-bit colour always crash at the same place but with 16-bit colour it doesn't crash at the same place.

Thanks very much,
Daniel

Congrats for the website and the forum as well. My thanks dedicated to the Macintosh Garden team and community.

Comments

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Joined: 2011 Jul 21

>ATI Rage 128 Pro w 16MB VRAM

16 MB of VRAM is not very much. In my search for 3D animation hardware support, 32 MB was almost always a minimum and 64 MB was a VERY common minimum.

Try running Apple's Hardware Test disk (available on MG) to see if you have a hardware problem with the video card.

Gary

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Joined: 2014 Jul 2

American McGee's Alice only needs 16MB VRAM however, I run the 3D games @ 640x480 @ 16-bit colour. Thanks, I'll try that.

EDIT: I would not like to burn a disk since I don't have a DVD burner avalabile now. 3D games like Tux Racer work fine on Linux but not OS X 10.4.11

32-bit colour on Mac OS X 10.4 (without any updates) works fine, the update is not corrupted since I have verified it and downloaded it like some 10 times on 10 installations from the Apple website.

MikeTomTom's picture
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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

576 MB SDRAM (256MB and 256MB of PC 133-333 (same type of chip) and 64MB (original RAM) of PC 100-222S)

Have you tried running without the 64/512 mismatching RAM? I know 133 RAM will run at 100 speed, but I wouldn't use different speed RAM all the same. Try without the original 64 MB and see if it makes any difference.

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Joined: 2014 Jul 2

Yeah, I tried that after I posted this and I still have graphical issues with Otto Matic (3D game)

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Joined: 2014 Jul 2

I have tried re-seating the Graphics Card and removed the 64MB RAM chip. Without the RAM it's faster but I still have the problem although it might have gotten very slightly better. I have burned the Apple Hardware Test but I need a Gigabit internet one and I only have a Sawtooth.

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Joined: 2009 Nov 14

I remembered that even though Otto Matic was Carbonized, when it was on OS X, the graphics were really messed up on our iMac (just the sky, really). AMG's Alice was released around the time OS X started to come out (2001 IIRC?), so it was Carbonized too, and perhaps one of the OS X upgrades (10.4 certainly by then) broke it.

I don't know, just my thoughts.

sfp1954's picture
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Joined: 2013 Dec 29

So are you saying that everything runs fine with a base install of 10.4.? but fails under 10.4.11?

If you read the fine print Apple never guarantees that a machine will run an OS that was released way past the time the machine was manufactured. The original OS on that machine was 8.6. So it's quote possible that in 10.4.11 something got changed or left out that only causes problems on that machine with that graphics card. Apple certainly wouldn't have tested 10.4.11 on any machine that old. And they certainly wouldn't do any thing to fix the problem even if it was brought to their attention. Just because the machine can in theory run 10.4.11 doesn't mean you should.

Apples always run faster with matched size chips.
That's the way they are designed. Pick up another 256 for $3-4.
I consider 768MB to be a minimum RAM for Tiger. Above that I don't see a difference.
Below that I notice a definite drop in speed.

That's an awfully small hard drive to be running virtual memory on. And the ATA bus speed is very slow on the G4s. ATA-33 I believe. Is there some reason you are running Tiger rather than Jaguar or Panther? I just wonder if you're trying to do too much with too little.
How fragmented is the hard drive?
How often do you check for bad blocks or zero it out (which usually eliminates bad blocks).

You might consider adding a SonnetTech ATA-66 card.

I have some 80GB drives lying around if you want one and a 40 from out of an eMac.
You can install more than one drive on the ATA-0 bus. One as master, one as slave.

If you had an 80 you could partition it into a 9.2.2 plus 10.2 partition and a 10.4 partition (and also run OS 7 and OS 8 via Sheepshaver and Basilisk). That way you could find the optimum OS for each app. you want to run.

Bottom line you're running a modern OS with a lot of overhead and use of virtual memory without enough real RAM and a dog of a tiny ATA hard drive.

themacmeister's picture
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Joined: 2009 Oct 26

My G4 iMac with default 32MB NVIDIA GeForce4MX runs all the titles you mention. I did upgrade my RAM to 768MB tho. I also managed to squeeze a SATA DVD-RW in there (with an IDE adaptor card). I haven't plugged it in for over 6 months, so I think I better check on how the PRAM battery is doing Smile

EDIT: Is your extra VRAM on an expansion DIMM? My old beige G3 had a VRAM expansion slot, as the default 4MB/8MB was not enough. I would think that at least one of those software titles would at least check for the correct amount of VRAM before running?!