Powerbook G4 Titanium Install Problems

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2014, September 14 - 2:24pm

Gary

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Joined: 2011 Jul 21

Powerbook G4 Titanium Install Problems

I recently bought a 1ghz 15" Powerbook model A1025. It came without any software and a freshly formatted hard drive.

I successfully installed Leopard (making sure to include the OS 9 drivers).

Then I tried to load 9.2.2. Sheesh! I've bought 2 different Install disks that were "guaranteed" to work.

In both cases the Installer started up and immediately issued a message:
This installer cannot run on your machine. Consult the literature."

So I'm looking for suggestions AND an Apple part number for the correct Install disk for my new (well slightly used) machine.

Gary

PS I've downloaded ALL the relevant disk images from MG already with no success. Each one issued the same message (above).

Comments

2014, September 14 - 5:03pm

sfp1954

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You can't run the OS 9 installer while booted from OSX.
The OS 9 installer is a OS 9 Application and can't be run unless you are either booted in OS 9 or you already have classic installed. (And I think classic support only worked through Tiger).
ie if all you have installed is Leopard you can't just "run" the OS 9 installer.
(Classic is defined as OS 9 running in emulation mode while booted in OSX).

You should always install OS 9 first onto a blank HD if you want to create a dual boot system.
Boot the OS 9 CD by holding the "C" key down. As I said before I recommend the eMac 9.2.2 disk.
Go to the utilities folder and initialize the HD HFS+.
Run the OS 9 installer.

You should also be able to boot the 9.2.2 CD by selecting it from the Startup Disk pane in System Preferences.

2014, September 14 - 5:23pm

(Reply to #2) #3

Gary

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All you said is true. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I can boot from ALL of the CDs and images I have. In each case the Installer launches and THEN issues the "I can't run" message.

Gary

2014, September 14 - 9:47pm

max1zzz

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Joined: 2010 Oct 3

are you using retail disks or gray restore disks? If their gray restore disks they probably check if the machine is correct and it it isn't it will quit

2014, September 14 - 10:29pm

sfp1954

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He is using retail disks.
I believe the issue is that in an effort to move people to OSX Apple modified the motherboard so that you can't install OS 9 in the usual way (ala the early mirrored door). The original restore disk probably contained a pre-made System Folder and Applications (OS 9) folder that simply get copied to the hard drive.

So your options are to pull a 9.2.2 System Folder from another machine.
or
Put the Titanium in target mode and install 9.2.2 booted from another machine.
or
Try the Quicksilver 5 CD restore set (assuming CD 1 will boot).
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/power-mac-g4-quicksilver-2002-restore-discs
There is also an iBook G4 9.2.2 restore set at the bottom of this list.
(again assuming CD 1 will boot or start the install)
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-install-cd-library

I can also upload a couple of 9.2.2 System Folders.
One that runs in classic mode on my Aluminum G4s.
And one that boots my G4 Quicksilver.

2014, September 14 - 11:39pm

MikeTomTom

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"I successfully installed Leopard (making sure to include the OS 9 drivers).

Then I tried to load 9.2.2. Sheesh! I've bought 2 different Install disks that were "guaranteed" to work.

In both cases the Installer started up and immediately issued a message:
This installer cannot run on your machine. Consult the literature."

Did you partition the drive? Single partition or two parts, one for X and the other for 9? You haven't mentioned this in your description.

If it was for myself & wanting both bootable X & 9 systems, I would have at least two partitions and I would install 9.x first to a partition before installing X to the other, if possible.

2014, September 15 - 12:40am

sfp1954

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Since you are running an OSX which is not Classic Compatible it's possible it may need a separate partition (it's worth a try), but I still think the real issue is Apple trying to force people off of OS 9 and only including a pre-built OS 9 folder as a courtesy to help people migrate (traditional CD install disabled at the motherboard). That's how the five CD PowerMac G4 install is set up. A 5GB disk image (.dmg) which gets restored/dubbed to your hard drive. No installers in the traditional sense at all. I will upload the OS 9 portion of that image (System Folder, Applications (OS 9) folder, Documents folder) when it finishes getting compressed.

2014, September 15 - 4:19am

sfp1954

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Don't know if anything here will provide a solution.
Three possible options.
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-922-system-folders

But as Mike pointed out you should always install the oldest OS first. Initializing the HD with the drive setup on the boot CD. OSX will automatically update the drivers to be OSX compatible without removing the OS 9 drivers. Otherwise all the OSX files that should be invisible in OS 9 are visible.

Installing the OS 9 drivers from OSX only insures that the driver will be visible to an OS 9 system, otherwise the drive does not show up at all to OS 9 or earlier.

2014, September 15 - 4:55am

atarikee

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Joined: 2010 May 31

I had the same machine, and used an OS 9.2.2 install disk from my 550 Mhz TiBook with no problems.

You could always try to install a retail version of OS 9.0 and upgrade from there...

2014, September 15 - 7:03am

#10

sfp1954

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I think tomorrow I will verify that a disk initialized with Leopard is a valid target for OS 9 installation. I know a Tiger initialized disk (with OS 9 drivers turned on) is. But I wouldn't put it past Apple to have made the Leopard drivers different since Leopard doesn't support Classic mode. The Leopard OS 9 compatible drivers may only allow the disk to be visible from an OS 9 system but not allow for installation. In the meantime I recommend booting one of your OS 9.2.2 install CDs, initializing the drive with Drive Setup (in the Utilities folder on the CD) and seeing if the installer still refuses to run.

2014, September 15 - 11:55am

(Reply to #10) #11

Gary

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You've given me lots to try. To answer some questions:
1) I did NOT partition the disk.
2) I erased (initialized) the disk using OS 9 Disk Setup with Leopard installed. Running the Installer on the newly erased disk (Mac OS Extended) produced the same error.
3) I re-installed Leopard and found the disk had magically been changed from Mac OS Extended to Mac OS Extended (Journaled) even though I had a Blessed (unworking) System Folder on the disk.

I've ordered yet another Install disk that has a part number (691-4060-A) unlike any previous disks I've tried. It is due to arrive by the end of the week.

I'll let you know what I find.

Gary

2014, September 15 - 6:27pm

#12

sfp1954

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If you erased the disk with Leopard installed then the disk should be totally empty...
"Journaled" is not a fixed parameter. It can be turned off or on with things like TechTool.

2014, September 15 - 8:44pm

#13

sfp1954

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So much for the Leopard/OS9 driver angle... tested and debunked.

But I think you're barking up the wrong tree with installer disk angle.
If my eMac CD won't work I don't think anything will work.

What is the make, model and size of the HD?
All the original drives were IBM/Hitachi Travelstars. 60 or 80GB.
Have you checked it to make sure that there aren't any jumpers on the slave and master pins?
Have you tried booting the machine in open firmware mode
http://diveintoosx.org/OpenFirmware.html
and issuing the
reset-nvram
set-defaults
and
reset-all
commands?

2014, September 15 - 9:54pm

(Reply to #13) #14

Gary

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Joined: 2011 Jul 21

The drive is the original Hitachi 60 GB. The guy I bought the computer from used a disk wipe utility on the drive. I haven't run any further tests on it but I've seen no problems (with 3 full erasures and installs behind me).

I've done NO Open Firmware things at all. The only thing even close is a complete power and Battery removal plus a "Hold the Power button down for 60 seconds with all power sources removed" exercise.

Gary

2014, September 17 - 1:15am

(Reply to #13) #15

Gary

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Ok. So here is what I did today:
1) downloaded and burned a copy of the eMac system CD
2) issued the Open Firmware commands
3) did a low-level format of the disk (7 hours)
4) partitioned the drive into 2 equal volumes
5) booted the eMac CD and attempted to install 9.2.2.

The Installer failed with the same error as all the other CDs I've tried.

Gary

2014, September 16 - 3:41am

#16

themacmeister

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Joined: 2009 Oct 26

This can be overcome by OpenFirmware commands. I do not know them off-hand, but you can even fool the installer CD/DVD into thinking it is a different computer, with false RAM etc.

This is how X-Post-Facto worked it's magic. It also faked the graphics card reporting from memory.

Have a search online for Open Firmware and MacOS 9, see if you get any hits.

EDIT: try these out: http://static.afp548.com/mactips/openfirmware.html
http://www.netneurotic.de/mac/openfirmware.html
http://www.jacsoft.co.nz/Tech_Notes/Mac_Keys.shtml

2014, September 17 - 1:14am

(Reply to #15) #17

sfp1954

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But as he's having problems installing OS 9 I think he should:
Boot in open firmware (command-option-O-F)

reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all

and see if the installer responds any differently.

2014, September 17 - 7:46pm

#18

sfp1954

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Joined: 2013 Dec 29

Then I think you're screwed as far as running a traditional installer which checks with the MB.
I would try putting my pre-built 9.2.2 System Folders on a USB stick or external drive, copying one directly to your OS 9 partition and see if it boots.
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-922-system-folders

Either that or use the 5 CD Quicksilver set which doesn't use an installer either.
It is simply a 3GB segmented disk image which is copied/dubbed to your HD.
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/power-mac-g4-quicksilver-2002-restore-discs
Just see if the first disk boots and starts the install process before burning all 5.

9.2.2 is 9.2.2.
That is to say I don't believe it matters what machine was used.
And I do mean 9.2.2 not some earlier version updated with 9.2.2.smi.
Once 9.2.2 was frozen in time and declared dead by Apple it didn't change as a function of the target machine.

2014, September 18 - 9:10am

#19

sos

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Joined: 2010 Feb 27

I had a bit of similar trouble with my 867Mhz A1025.

Then found this link, and it worked:
http://inefficienciestoday.blogspot.co.nz/2011/04/download-restore-image...

With some more discussion here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/macos9/nR2QQCKaCFA

Good luck!

2014, September 18 - 8:07pm

(Reply to #19) #20

sfp1954

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Pretty much what I have been trying to convince him of. On the final machines that could actually boot/run 9.2.2 (Titanium 876, 1000 - Late Quicksilver - Early MDD) Apple disabled actual installation of 9.2.2 from a 9.2.2 CD at the motherboard level. Instead the factory disks contain an image of the complete hard drive as it would have been when delivered from the factory. Installation is simply done by a complete hard disk restore to its initial condition. There are no installers for OSX and OS9. The only program there is mounts the .dmg and copies the entire contents onto the HD. In the case of the Quicksilver the restore is a 3GB .dmg segmented onto 5 CDs. I have extracted the OS 9 portions and put them in a separate folder.
http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/PowerMac...

2014, September 19 - 1:04am

(Reply to #20) #21

MikeTomTom

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Joined: 2009 Dec 7

"On the final machines that could actually boot/run 9.2.2 (Titanium 876, 1000 - Late Quicksilver - Early MDD) Apple disabled actual installation of 9.2.2 from a 9.2.2 CD at the motherboard level..."

I'm not entirely convinced of this. While it is true that these models may have shipped with software CD/DVD's containing an OS X installer which required installing from before it would install an OS 9.2.2 from a hidden .dmg container, the OS 9.2.2 Universal install CD here does boot up and install to the Quicksilver (2002) Mac.

It also boots up and installs to the 1st gen G4 eMac (my main reason for considering this), as this is Mac was perhaps the final production G4 Mac capable of booting native into 9.2.2

PowerBook G4 1.0 GHz (Ti) introduced: November 6, 2002 discontinued: September 16, 2003
PowerMac G4 1.0 GHz (QS 2002): intro: January 28, 2002 discontinued: August 13, 2002
PowerMac G4 1.0 GHz (MDD): intro: August 13, 2002 discontinued: January 28, 2003
eMac G4 1.0 GHz (ATI-M8950LL/A): introduced: May 6, 2003 discontinued: October 22, 2003

The eMac I can vouch for, as its one that I own. - Prior to installing 9.2.2 from the universal CD linked above, it had Tiger (OS X 10.4.11) on one partition and 9.2.2 on another. I wanted Mac OS 9.x only on it in a single partition. So using the universal CD, booted up from it, re-partitioned the drive and installed 9.2.2 to the newly refreshed disk. I didn't need to do any OF voodoo and it installed without fuss. Only one minor issue arose and that was the video drivers on the universal CD were older than what the eMac was expecting, so I updated those and the eMac has been operating happily as a 9.x only box ever since.

I would really like to test this CD out on a MDD and also the Ti for myself, to give a yay or nay verdict on the universal 9.2.2 CD's suitability on those two models. - This doesn't help Gary with his immediate problem I know, but it would settle some niggling doubts I have of my own.

I'm going to purchase in the (I hope) near future, a 867 MHz or 1.0 GHz Ti.

2014, September 19 - 12:22pm

(Reply to #19) #22

Gary

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OK! Here is what I've found. The disk part number (691-4060-A) that I ordered arrived. It "works" but requires I install X (10.2.1) first and put 9.2.2 on the same disk. UGH!

Then I tried the image at:
http://inefficienciestoday.blogspot.co.nz

As mentioned by others, there is no installer in this disk image. It is a pre-configured System Folder and applications.

But It WORKS! I simply copied the contents of the disk image to my 9.2.2 partition, selected the disk as the startup disk and rebooted.

DVD Player started up. File Sharing started up. Airport connected to my wireless router. And After Effects no longer crashes.

YES!

Thanks to all of you who patiently helped me through this ordeal.

Gary

2014, September 21 - 12:57am

(Reply to #24) #23

MikeTomTom

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"OK! Here is what I've found. The disk part number (691-4060-A) that I ordered arrived. It "works" but requires I install X (10.2.1) first and put 9.2.2 on the same disk. UGH!"

Easy to to deal with; Install to the same disk (or partition). Move the OS 9 system folder and associated files manually to 2nd disk (or partition). Select it in the Control Panels as the startup disk and reboot. Delete the OS 9 system folder from the first partition if desired.

Glad to see that you got something to work OK for you tho', Gary.

Any chance of you archiving the 691-4060-A disk here?

2014, September 21 - 11:18am

(Reply to #29) #24

Gary

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>Any chance of you archiving the 691-4060-A disk here?

Sorry. I returned it without making a copy.

Gary

2014, September 19 - 2:20am

#25

sfp1954

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But why bother with a traditional install when all you need to do is intialize the drive with OS 9 drivers included and copy a 9.2.2 Folder to the drive? The original disks for the later Titaniums did not use installers. You got "Software Restore" sets. Same way with the iBooks that supported OS 9 either natively or in Classic mode.

The Quicksilver boots and installs from the eMac CD but the included 5 CD restore set just contains prefab folders. The early MDD definitely did not want to install from OS 9 CDs - as I had one in my lab at Brown University and any time there were OS 9 problems I had to reload the entire HD from the original install CDs. OS 9 and OSX did not play well together in the early days - lots of disk corruption issues.

Once Steve Jobs declared OS9 dead on May 6,2002
http://everystevejobsvideo.com/steve-jobs-announces-death-of-os-9/
Apple did everything they could to frustrate people who still wanted to run it.

It was a big topic on public forums at the time how Apple had tweaked the MBs so you could no longer install 9.2.2 in the traditional way. And of course that was followed up by disabling 9.2.2 booting altogether and forcing you to run in Classic Mode.

2014, September 19 - 2:45am

(Reply to #22) #26

MikeTomTom

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"But why bother with a traditional install when all you need to do is intialize the drive with OS 9 drivers included and copy a 9.2.2 Folder to the drive?"

Its cleaner; The traditional 9.x install doesn't add any OS X hidden files in every folder it visits.
Because you can install a Mac OS 9.2.2 only system (if its at all possible).
Mostly: To satisfy my own curiosity.

"Once Steve Jobs declared OS9 dead on May 6,2002 ... Apple did everything they could to frustrate people who still wanted to run it."

Exactly one year to the day before the eMac ATI 1st rolled off the production line. It took them until October, 2003 before stopping production of that model and as I mentioned before, the universal 9.2.2 install CD doesn't have a problem installing to this Mac. - Perhaps this was some kind of anomaly, maybe the eMac was seen as an educational as opposed to a consumer item and they wanted that backwards compatibility for school admins on budgets. Just guessing tho' & I still need to find out for myself re: the MDD & Ti and that universal install CD.

2014, September 19 - 6:44pm

(Reply to #23) #27

sfp1954

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Yes, the eMac was a initially educational only product. So it is a special case.
It was not available to the general public. You couldn't just order one from the Apple Store.
And it was the last machine to have it's own traditional 9.2.2 installer.
But only for the 1GHz and under machines.
The 1.25GHz is an OSX only MB (as is the 1GHz machine with Superdrive).

2014, September 21 - 12:48am

(Reply to #25) #28

MikeTomTom

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"And it was the last machine to have it's own traditional 9.2.2 installer.
But only for the 1GHz and under machines."

Maybe this was the case for the 1st gen eMac G4 700/800 models, I haven't used one, so cannot say.

For the 2nd gen eMac G4 1GHz (ATI, combo drive) of 2003, however, mine has its original gray "eMac Software Install and Restore" DVD. This has OS 9.2.2 in an invisible (hidden) .dmg archive only. So to install a system, OS X (10.2.4) has to install 1st. Plus, the X installer will only allow the OS 9.2.2 system software to install to the same partition as where OS X resides.

Which btw is easy to deal with if you want to have 9 on a separate partition, just install X & 9 then move the 9 system to another partition manually, deleting the one you don't want.

However, for a clean OS 9 install to a single partition unpolluted by OS X hidden files, having the universal 9.2.2 install CD, has been a real plus as-far-as wanting a 9.x system only goes, on this eMac.

2014, September 19 - 9:44pm

#29

sfp1954

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Discovered I have two different OS 9.2.2 eMac installers.
One from 2002 (CD version 1. and one from 2003 (CD version 2.2).
Not sure which one I have online so I will re-image both and post as time permits.

2014, September 20 - 1:23am

#30

sfp1954

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I have uploaded my second copy of the 9.2.2 eMac installer.
V1 is dated 3/27/2002.
V2 is dated 3/17/2003